|
A Growing Problem |
| With the site being down for a couple of days last week, we've learned to take for granted that it is there. Not only do we take it for granted that SIYE exists, but that there will be well-written tales of Harry/Ginny to read. One of the things we have been running into lately is a problem where our staff is not being respected. Authors, if your stories are rejected for any reason - spelling, grammar, canon error, etc. - it's not just some person randomly pressing a button, or a computer program automatically spitting them out. It's an archivist who takes the time to go through your story and realizes that hey, this isn't the best work that this author can do. He or she needs a Beta reader and/or to look the story over again before submitting it. Sometimes, the archivist goes the extra step in trying to tell the author exactly what needs to be worked on. In a few cases, multiple archivists work with an author to either get their story into shape, or to see if it's even suitable for the site to begin with. There are authors on this site who greatly value what the staff is doing - ensuring that their best work is put forth for public consumption. However, there is a growing number of them that ignore story rejections. They either don't bother to communicate with staff, keep resubmitting stories without any changes, submit future chapters without learning from their mistakes, and even harass the staff via private message and e-mail. Folks, this lack of respect toward SIYE archivists stops now. I realize that having someone look over, edit, and possibly reject your story hurts. I'm a journalist. I work daily with editors who rip my work - both stories and design - to absolute shreds. They don't do it because they have a personal vendetta against me. They do it because they want to see me grow as a writer and a designer. That's the way that you should be looking at this. Yes, it's nice to receive the pats on the back from your reviewers. But, you will never grow as writers if you don't pay attention to the critical feedback as well. Take a good, hard look at your work and ask, "Would J.K. Rowling have gotten away with her work released to the public the way I've written it?" Yes, some mistakes will always get through. But when your story has something such as, "Harry banged opened the dor to Grimwald Place and snogged Giny Weasly against the wall. 'Ginny, I luv U. Mari me.,' then it will be rejected no matter how many times it is submitted in that state. From here on out, if I see authors who are repeatedly ignoring staff attempts to contact them, or are ignoring staff and Beta reader input and keep resubmitting their work with the same errors, their stories will be automatically deleted. If an author is struggling with their work, those contacted by staff will be required to have a Beta reader or their stories approved by myself or another administrator before they are allowed to post. This will affect only a very small portion of the submitters to this site. Folks, we really want to help you get better as writers. It's for the sake of the reader, the people that we are here to write for. SIYE sets a high standard for the site, and we would be nothing better than Fanfiction.net if we choose to lower those standards for any reason. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me, IM me, or e-mail me. All of that information is in my author's bio. DQBunny SIYE Chief Archivist |
| DQBunny on 2007.11.17 - 11:27PM () |
Soccer Devil22 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.11 - 11:08PM to say:
"Harry banged opened the dor to Grimwald Place and snogged Giny Weasly against the wall. 'Ginny, I luv U. Mari me.,' *Falls out of chair into a laughing fit* Please tell me someone did not try to submit something like that. That's the kind of eloquent writing I'd expect to find on Ficwad, not SIYE.
iluvfanfics came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.11 - 11:39PM to say:
I personally have had some contact from archivists who very politely communicated to me the things that I needed to work on for future chapters. It's always done tactfully and is usually a legitimate point. I hope I've always been respectful and fixed the problem! I'm a former journalist myself--one must develop a thick skin when one puts something out there for the world to read. If you've got the guts to write something and let others read it, you ought to have the guts to listen to constructive criticism.
hot48cricket came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.11 - 11:41PM to say:
DQ Bunny...well said!!
Comet Moon came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.11 - 11:44PM to say:
The staff deserves the respect of its writers and readers. You've created a wonderful site, with worthwhile stories. As to those writers that may have difficulties, don't be discouraged by this, but learn from their suggestions. If younger or having difficulties, get a beta. There are sites availible for this. And if not, you can still publish on other sites see it published Again to the archivists, and well done job Ja ne Jim
Imperio came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 01:14AM to say:
Sock it to em... DQ
BeyondRedHorizons came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 01:43AM to say:
"Harry banged opened the dor to Grimwald Place and snogged Giny Weasly against the wall. 'Ginny, I luv U. Mari me.,' - it is now my life mission to get a story that includes that line accepted. :P
Mojomig came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 03:35AM to say:
I 100% support this approach
Torak came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 04:31AM to say:
Speaking as one of the archivists working the stack, Iluvfanfics (despite the egregious "luv") is absolutely right. They're one of the writers who really do try to produce good stuff, which is exactly what we archivists like to see - people who are as concerned about the quality of fics on SIYE as we are. (I was about to say "one of the few writers" there, but of course most of our writers try to get it right. It just seems like most are incompetent because the illiterate ramblings are the once we notice most...)
Oh, and Soccer Devil... we've had worse. MUCH worse. We have an inofficial, unwritten blacklist of auth... write... contributors, submissions from whom generally generate a flurry of emails on the stafflist along the lines of "Oh god, not another one". And, from me, "Oh good, it's been ages since I had a good laugh." Yes, I'm the evil one.
We've had some really execrable fics submitted over the years - and remarkably many of them have their deletions contested by their makers, some of whom, I kid you not, insist that they're great authors. There's only so far you can get with "Sorry, mate, you're really not."
And then, every now and again, apart from the usual, passably good stuff, we get the really good fics. Stuff that goes a long way towards Validated Author status. Stuff that restores our faith in writers, and makes us think that perhaps, a lot of grit and goo is worth it for the occasional pearl. Apart from my fics (of course), these are things like Viridian's Nightmares, Sovran's Meaning of One, and KSchneyer's Slow Boat. We need more stories like those.
WeasleyTwinsLover86 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 05:38AM to say:
SIYE is the best. Period. I respect both writers and staff members here for doing a kick ass job. Keep up the great job and I hope that some writers get the heads up they need. Can I just say LOL @ "Harry banged opened the dor to Grimwald Place and snogged Giny Weasly against the wall. 'Ginny, I luv U. Mari me.,' - Oh, that's just classic. Thank you for the rib cracking sentence, if you can call it a sentence.
we9ge came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 06:34AM to say:
There is nothing wrong with trying to ensure quality on this site. Whatever has been done, it has kept me coming back to read, so I have no problem with this procedure. Keep up the good work!
neomatrixj2 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 08:37AM to say:
That is absolutely just funny as hell. I hope your archivists get the respect you deserve. Perhaps make he person who rejects a story anonymous to the author so thy can't be harassed if it's a growing problem.
MyGinevra came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 08:41AM to say:
While I totally agree that illiterate fics should be rejected, and that the admins should always strive for quality, it's also incumbent on the staff to make sure that the writers who go to the effort to create a story and have the courage to put it out there for the world to see are well served. Personally, I have never been less than delighted with how my fics (notice I don't say "I") have been treated. However, I do know that there have been submissions that were accepted and posted that should not have been -- even after being beta'd by an admin. This does a dissservice to the writer and to the site. If an admin can't do a superior job as a beta, then he/she should not take it on. What then happens is that the writer assumes that everything is fine, and when the next chapter or the next story is rejected, wonders what the hell is going on. I love this site, I love the readers, and I think the staff does a great job. Let's all try to keep it good, and make it better wherever we can. One of the things we don't do often enough is thank the people who do it all for no ompensation other than knowing they are keeping the H/G ship alive for all of us. Here's mine: thanks for all your hard work, keep trying to make it better, and keep pushing us writers to do our part.
Mojomig came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 09:03AM to say:
As I've already said, I totally agree with the strict standards enforced here on SIYE by the archivists who really do a gret job.
I would like to raise a hopefully constructive suggestion though, regarding the rejection email. Could this be made more personal / tailored to the rejection reasons? I'm not embarassed to say that my October challenge entry was rejected. After a polite enquiry, I learned via a PM that it was deemed too OOC / silly, which is fair enough, because it was totally ridiculous, and was probably written after I'd had some dodgy pumpkin juice. What frustrated me at the time, however, was the official bog-standard rejection email which stated it had been rejected for canon spelling errors and that I should get a beta. The fact that my submission included a thank you to my beta just made me laugh. Maybe this was an isolated incident, but it did make me wonder if the procedure is as effective as it could be.
Once again I'd like to re-iterate that the policy is absolutely right.
Spenser Hemmingway came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 09:55AM to say:
I'm extremely pleased with the reactions to this posting. We really try to work with the writers. Actually, those of us who are Beta Readers, Archivists and Administrators (and sometimes all three); we are authors as well. We really are a great site, and a great site needs to be a quality site.
I would make one additional request to submitters. Please limit large, multi-chapter books to a few chapters at a time at most. It is really difficult to wade through eighteen or twenty episodes in short order, while still trying to be fair to everyone else in the pile. If an earlier chapter needs to be sent back for correction, or just to be deleted, then subsequent entries risk being validated out of order. They may need to be corrected as well, or worse, they may be fine but still sent away because the prior ones were.
Thanks to everyone! Eric B.
Breanie came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 10:28AM to say:
I would just like to comment that that line is definitely a classic and highly amusing. This site is the best one i've ever come across when it comes to posting in not only a timely manner but making sure that the story is good. i have never had a problem with it. i know that when i get something rejected that it needs work. my beta often helps me with that but sometimes i get too carried away with the steam and i love that this site is willing to tell me ok this is what you need to fix for your story to be posted. It's helpful and shows me where i'm going wrong. if everything was posted right away without being checked over this site would be trash. so congrats to DQ Bunny for setting people straight. i love the way that this site works and those who are running it are doing a terrific job. keep up the great work! ~Breanie~
Torak came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 11:21AM to say:
Mojomig, we have two modular form letters; a Yes Letter and a No Letter. We send a Yes Letter if it's something that can be easily fixed - a moderate amount of spelling mistakes or a sex scene to tone down are the usual suspects - and a No Letter if the story has major problems that make it unacceptable in its current form; generally these are problems that need major rewrites.
These two form letters are essentially modular; they have three or four form sections which are removed as needed: "Your story was rejected because..." The archivist then removes the inapplicable sections, and we generally tweak the sections that are left. Some of us do this more than others; I tend to modify the letters quite heavily, for instance, while other archivists just trim it down to the relevant boilerplate. It's pretty individual.
As for the letters themselves, there are a few changes in the works already; in particular, we're working on new letters that will a) have a more unified style and b) have a cleaner, less cluttered style. So while we develop the new letters, we'll keep your comments in mind, see if we can't make them a bit more customisable.
quinn came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 12:00PM to say:
It's this strong stance on quality that makes this such a fantastic site. Thanks to all of the admins and archivists! This really is a site worth investing time into and it's mostly because of the work that you put into it. Thank you!
melkior came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 12:32PM to say:
i noe sum ppl hav problemz wid speling butt sum timez it ken bee 2 mucch.
SIYE I luv U. Valleydate me.,
lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 01:23PM to say:
Melkior - You wouldn't believe how close that comes to some of the fics we get. LOL! We also get fics written as if they were IM'ing someone.
Also, bear in mind that Archivists are NOT always beta's and if they help an author out on a chapter that was submitted, it's still ultimately the author's responsibility to learn from it and submit the next chapter correctly. If the next one is rejected as well, it's not the Archivist fault. Archivist's are not here to write it for you. We always say, get yourself a "qualified" or "good" beta. We've rejected fics where the author has repeatedly claimed to have two or three beta's, but it's still a mess. Make sure your beta knows what they are doing. Just someone reading it isn't good enough. They need to have some grammatical skills as well. We do have several beta's listed who are willing to help. They have taken tests to qualify and can give you sound advice. The best thing about being an Archivist is watching someone start out maybe a little rough and then grow and change into a good writer. If you think we are being hard, it's only because we know what can happen to those who pay attention and work at it. I personally have seen some really bad writers literally change into amazing writers. Nothing we send back is personal, it's just to help. I get stung sometimes by some of the comments or emails about my own fic, but in the end, they are just trying to help the story. That's all the Archivists are trying to do. Amazingly enough, every last one of them really does care. And I also agree that the letters should be changed. We're working on that. Thanks DQ for your efforts in this post. That's why SIYE is so great.
DQBunny came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 02:32PM to say:
Spenser: I knew I was suppose to add something to the missive! Thank you! MyGinevra: This is definitely a problem that's cropped up before, and something that we're working behind the scenes to address as well.
Zen came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 03:15PM to say:
LOL! That line was hilarious! Seriously, though, it's bad enough when you have to wad through all the junk on FF.Net in order to find a good story, without "contributors", as Torak put it, coming to litter such a wonderful site like SIYE. *nods*
melkior came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 04:30PM to say:
You know, it doesn't surprise me that people try to submit stories that look like they've been written by an unconscious troll on crystal meth. If your parents always told you, no matter what you have actually done, that you are the best, you'll believe it, and you'll start wondering why is the whole world against you.
People like that simply cannot see the difference between their work and the high quality stories that this site features. I'm sure if you asked them, they'd tell you that Sovran's Meaning of One is a mediocre attempt at patching up some prose, when compared to their 'masterpieces'.
You can do nothing about it really. You can reject them of course, without even attempting to translate them from the blasphemy they call English, but in the end, for them, you'll be a short-sighted fool, shackled by narrow dogmas, ad they'll be misunderstood geniuses.
Rather simple, and very sad.
Ginzig1 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 04:51PM to say:
One of the things that attracted me so much to this site was the quality of stories. I would hate to SIYE sink to the depth of some of the lower quality fan fiction sites. Repect should be given to the archivists for the time, effort, and patience they put in. I had no idea such a problem was going and it's very disappointing that some people are so childish. SIYE has my support 100%.
Pigwidgeon11 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 05:11PM to say:
I hate when people criticize my writing, but I understand that it's important for it to get better. I also know that the staff here at SIYE works their butts off to make us happy. I thank them. :)
Ginebra Wood came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 05:17PM to say:
Thank you DQ for this favulous post and thanks to all the readers and writers who shows us (administrators, archivist and all SIYE Staff, they´re my people!)some support here. Thanks a lot, we´re trying to do things right for all of you! Ginebra
Ginny Guerra came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 05:46PM to say:
Thank you for all your comments. Just make sure all the mods are somewhat consistent, since some return jobs for one comma and some let huge mistakes in grammar and spelling pass. I know how hard it is to be rejected, but it feels worse when Isee someone go through with mistakes far worse than mine. Just as Pigwidgeon says, one of the things I like the most of SIYE is the general quality of the stories, but I really freak out when I find some things. Thanks a lot again.
CodeRomance came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 07:33PM to say:
That example you gave is just as bad as texting! I think that's why I'm so bad at it...I can't stand it when someone writes like that! Especially in a story! Good policy! I totally agree! CodeRomance
elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 07:51PM to say:
Hey, I'll have to admit - if it wasn't for the quality of work I've seen posted here, I probably wouldn't have been willing to even consider writing my own story. Suffice to say, my only previous experience had been FF.net - not exactly the best first impression.
As for the admins - I know I'm grateful for all you folks do - you make us look better, after all. :) So thanks.
(And as for the less... well behaved... people. Well. Who needs 'em?)
KateriBella came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 09:42PM to say:
Wonderfully stated, DQBunny! I have a Bachelor's in English (British and American Literature), and it hurts to see some of the spelling and grammatical atrocities that befall most people today, both young AND old. If you don't know how to spell it, look it up. Dictionaries are made for this reason as well, people! I still catch some they're/their/there errors, even after they've been beta'd. What's nice is that they are few and far between. Thank the gods that we've never seen issues as bad (or worse) than your chosen sentence on here! We salute you!
harry_ginny1234 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 10:37PM to say:
I have absolutely no problem with this. I hope that I can always be respectful to the archivist and administrators. My first intersction with the archivist on this site was to be rejected for my first posting. while it read well to me, when I managed to get a beta to assist me, I was shown the problems I was having, and my next attempt at posting that same story was received well, and the story is still going well. whether my ramblings make sense to anyone elae or not, I agree with DQBunny!!
sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.12 - 10:51PM to say:
mmm...I fully support SIYE's strict stance on this issue. GO SIYE!
Sovran came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 12:15AM to say:
melkior: After rejecting one fic, I got an email that said pretty much exactly that.
Kezzabear came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 12:17AM to say:
*Feels very lucky to not have fic rejected* You guys are hard core! And that is a GOOD THING, don't get me wrong!
Belcris came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 12:34AM to say:
Personally, I respect all the staff. If they tell me I'm doing something incorrectly then I try to fix it. Unfortunately I'm a slow learner, but i do try. :) Chris
Torak came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 04:17AM to say:
Melkior: The contributor Sovran mentioned is something of a celebrity among the staff. That said, you wouldn't believe the number of people with roughly that level of English who try to persuade us that they really should get validated... We also get a lot of people who post a story, find it rejected, and then repost it immediately. I don't know how (if?) they think - perhaps they believe that we archivists don't talk to each other? - but they're oh so wrong. We keep tabs on rejected fics. Often there's been a long discussion about rejected fics, so the rejection is more a consensus than a simple rejection. And still these people keep posting! "One of these days a clumsy archivist will stumble over it, see my genius and validate it!"
broomstickflyer came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 07:07AM to say:
I had a story rejected for cannon spelling mistakes so I went through the story line by line using a dictionary (a task that took ages) and found no spelling errors at all, I decided that the validator required the story in some other language and not in English/English so I did not bother to resubmit it, in fact I decided to scrap the idea of submitting to the site at all and now I just enjoy reading those stories that do get posted. I have to say that I have not yet read anything that was not excellent.
melkior came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 07:25AM to say:
Sovran: Again, I'm not surprised. That could actually be funny, if it wasn't so sad. I only singled you out as an example, since Torak already mentioned you in one of the comments. Good thing I did. Now I got a confirmation of my observations.
Torak: What worries me more is the fact that probably 60% (if not even more) of those people are native English speakers.
The fact that you archivists talk to each other should be an easily deduced fact. The site probably wouldn't function nearly as well if you didn't.
Now if only this news post came out before the end of the Reconstruction challenge... I would have sneaked in the 'Mari me' line in Er... Reparo? any way I could... Ah well.
goingbacktosquareone came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 04:38PM to say:
I love that this site has standards. It's one of the things that attracted me when I was just a reader. As an author, I doubly respect the Archivists' work, understanding the commitment they make this site to insure its excellence. I've never had anything rejected, so at first I couldn't really wrap my head around the fact that someone would actually be disrespectful about it; but then, I'm a perfectionist with neurotic tendencies. LOL. Way to go DQ Bunny. Let 'em have it.
amblewat came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 08:04PM to say:
This was the first site that I posted on and is now the only site I post my stories on. I respect the staff and I love writing here. Lets not ruin a great site by hurting or disrespecting the staff that works so hard to maintain a site we all enjoy.
Sakabatou came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 08:38PM to say:
All I have to say about rejections is that, I've gotten them on another site, and I've had critical feedback, which I've gotten not to long ago, and I have to say all that has maybe better at writing. Although, sometimes I feel like I haven't even broken the surface yet:) I think it's wrong for rude e-mails towards the SIYE archivists, they are trying to make you better, and I thank them. Keep up the great work, SIYE.
Sakabatou came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.13 - 08:53PM to say:
Made me better, not maybe better, lol. Maybe I need my beta to look at my reviews and comments too:)
werekitten came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.14 - 03:31PM to say:
Thanks so much for posting this, I completely agree. One time, I previewed a chapter to get a sense of if it was long enough, and I accidentally submitted it, less than half done, with all my spelling errors, notes to my beta, everything. The wonderful archivests saved me from serious embarrassment. And the archivest who've contacted me are always polite, and really are just trying to make our work better. Thanks, archivists!
Victor Aagaard came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.16 - 08:55PM to say:
Hey, we should have an Archivists' Day round here. Like Secretaries' Day or Teachers' Day, except way cooler. :-)
lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.18 - 12:07AM to say:
Thanks DQ. These posts of yours are always a big help to me.
faded memories came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.20 - 10:49PM to say:
i used to edit a magazine for my school and a few others and we ran a mini fanfic page and i got yelled at all the time... most ppl have real ISSUES with rejection. its like they cant see that they need to improve their work. they just think its someone else's fault. it bugs me a lot
faded memories came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.20 - 10:49PM to say:
Victor Aagaard - that is an awesome idea
Dianne came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.21 - 07:22PM to say:
When I first started out in fanfiction, I was a terrible writer. It had been years since I'd put paper and pen together and I didn't know how to type. I had been out of school for over twenty years and the old saying about using it or losing it took hold. I didn't remember any of the rules. My first story was awful. I grew with help from people who offered to help me in their reviews. It was this site that got me started on the road to recovery of skills so to speak and I've chatted with so many good people. There is one thing I would like to point out. Fanfiction,net isn't a quality site necessarily but there are some real gems there. There are also people who are scared to put their stuff up on a site that requires validation. It's a scary process for some people. For those people, Fanfiction.net may be their starting point. Having said this, I think this is the friendliest, and most helpful site out there. It would be nice if people who are seriously trying to write quality fics would come to you from Fanfic,net and get some help. But it is kind to remember that not all fics at that site suck. Just some. Oh, and thanks so much for the laugh with the awful sentence! The people who write that way aren't poor writers, they are just shredding the language. I'm glad this site has standards and mods who are approachable. I think we have the best reviewers here too!
hglunaronfan103 came out of the woodwork on 2007.11.22 - 08:47PM to say:
Well that sucks. I would never try and disrespect this site. The only reason you won't be seeing my fanfction being updated for a long while or getting sent is because I'm busy with school and yes, I did get rejected on my second chapter and was somewhat upset and devasted but I got over it. If I'm going to be a writer, I have to accept the fact that my work will get rejected, you know? I have to continue sending in the summers or long breaks or holidays due to the fact I have school and life in the way now. The beta-readers I asked could not helped or didn't have the time. So if I'm absent for a long time it's because of those reasons. I hope the other people on here treat you with more respect. I know you all mean well and yes, fanfiction.net was great site to go to also as the person above mentioned and nice set of rules, DQ Bunny! Good luck with the site and the sentence was funny...I totally get it! Ok, I'll stop my talking here!
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